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Guild structure suggestions and discussion

179 respuestas [Último envío]
Tai'lahr
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se unió: Jul 8 2008

Wow, great post, Marten, and just what I needed to help me finally get a handle on the org chart. While Andros' census was a list of the guild members and the jobs they perform, my document will lay out the guild positions and duties and responsibilities of each (and, then note who is currently doing them). I hope that this will help everyone, both in the guild and outside, to understand the structure and positions better. And, hopefully, it will make recruiting easier, too.

I could use your assistance in filling in some more holes and hope to get a rough rough-draft to you soon for your comments.

Andros
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se unió: Oct 29 2007
Tai'lahr wrote:
I could use your assistance in filling in some more holes and hope to get a rough rough-draft to you soon for your comments.

No problem, just ask anything and we'll try to fill those holes. ;)

Kalypso: #85553

Szark
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se unió: Ene 12 2008

Thanks Tai for the update. it is nice to keep the update coordinator, well updated.

Tai'lahr
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se unió: Jul 8 2008
Andros wrote:
Tai'lahr wrote:
I could use your assistance in filling in some more holes and hope to get a rough rough-draft to you soon for your comments.

No problem, just ask anything and we'll try to fill those holes. ;)

Great, thanks! I’ve got all of the positions laid out and just need to fill in some job descriptions. I got a lot from your Census and recent post about the revised newsletter positions. Now, I need the same for the following:

    Webmaster
    Assistant Webmaster
    Library Manager
    Forum Administrator
    Forum Moderator
    RSS News Feed Daily Updater
    RSS News Feed Back up Updater;
    RSS News Feed Coding
    Rel.to
    Wiki

Then, it should be just about ready to share with everyone for comments and suggestions. :D[/]

Andros
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

Here is my point of view. I think the best answer will be a combination of what a few of us will say.

Webmaster: Is in charge of the GoMe website. Edit and add pages where needed. Implement the codes(RSS, Joomla) for these features to work.
Assistant Webmaster: Support the webmaster by sharing the workload and they work together on website projects/features.
Library Manager: Upload the GoMe Newsletter(3 languages) on the GoMe server and modify the Library page to show the new link.
Forum Administrator: Is in charge of the GoMe forum. Edit and add sections/post where needed.
Forum Moderator: *I'm thinking of putting Aander91 as a moderator but I realized that this board, compared to the MOUL forum for example, doesn't really need moderation. If that is the case, moderators would not be required. Do you guys think we need a moderator?*
Wiki Project Manager: Is in charge of the developing in various ways the Wiki, making decisions based on his/her own judgment and the desires of the messengers.

I will let others describe them:

RSS News Feed Daily Updater
RSS News Feed Back up Updater;
RSS News Feed Coding
Rel.to

Kalypso: #85553

Szark
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se unió: Ene 12 2008

RSS News Feed Daily Updater and RSS News Feed Back up Updater;

Quote:
Quote:
As I specified the role originally, Szark's responsibilities to the RSS feed are only to ensure that news posted to Submit News gets onto the feed in a reasonably timely manner. That does not mean that Szark has to do ALL of the non-affiliate RSS feed posting. Anyone with the necessary access permissions to post to the feed can post to the feed. If I see a story sitting in Submit News, and no-one has posted it to the feed yet, I could pick it up and put it on the feed just as well as Szark or any other of the messengers with that access.

The objective of the position is to ensure that things don't get posted to Submit News and sit for 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours... and everyone assumes someone else will take care of it. That was happening until Szark agreed to ensure that nothing sits in Submit News for too long. The way this was originally described was that once a day, Szark would check Submit News to see if there was anything sitting that had NOT already been posted. Now, it's fine if Szark checks more frequently than once a day... that is up to him. The requirement, however, is just once per day.

As for checking for typos... I don't think we'll avoid typos on the feed by channeling everything through one person, unless that person is a college English professor.

Regarding the "even if it was posted by Chogon" comment... No, I do not expect Szark to contact Chogon to ask, "Hey, can you confirm the information you just posted to the Myst Online forum?". I can understand that if Chogon's posts on the MOUL forum were suddenly full of typos, or if they contained some comment that strained credibility, then we might wonder if Chogon's account had been hacked and in such a case it would be smart to send off an e-mail. But that is not the case in this situation. Again, I want to avoid piling a bunch of work onto Szark. I really only think Szark needs to manage "Cyan" news when it is rumor - that is, when we're uncertain if it really is Cyan news.

While I am explaining myself, I should say that I would view things just the same if any other person were doing these duties. I prefer a guild with policies of general guidance, not with strict unyielding rules that must be followed because they are the rules. I prefer a guild where no-one feels like all of the responsibility is being dumped on their shoulders. I like a guild where anyone feels welcome to participate and to assist. I believe that not stepping on each others' toes can be managed by being respectful of each other.

and

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=148&start=105#p4207

* Daily RSS Feed Update - performed by Szark - is a once per day task to ensure that news doesn't sit in our "Submit News" bin for too long.

I hope that covers it.

Tai'lahr
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se unió: Jul 8 2008

Thanks for all the input, everyone. I finally have a good draft to share here so everyone can comment, suggest, and fill in more blanks. But, it's in MSWord with a lot of text boxes and being the technofeeb that I am, I have no idea how to post it here. :oops:
So, I've e-mailed it to the GoMe address which I believe Andros checks, right?

Please let me know if that's okay, or if there's something else I should do. Thanks! :D

Leonardo
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se unió: Jun 19 2008

You could upload it here. When you post a message you can upload a file too, just look in the box over the "topic review" and there you'll see a "Upload attachment" label :wink:

Tai'lahr
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se unió: Jul 8 2008

Thanks, Leonardo! Here it is (hopefully):[attachment=0]

GoMe Org Chart-V2.doc

[/attachment]

Oh, and, just FYI, I put a mistake in it on purpose to ensure that it got thoroughly reviewed. :wink:

Andros
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

WOW Tai'lahr. It's bloody genius! I would never have done such a good job with it. So big thumb up. ;)

A few things to correct though. ;)

1st page:
NOT Affiliates Representative..... Affiliates Chair

2nd page:
NOT GoMe Newsletter Lynnutte.... GoMe Newsletter Andros
NOT GoMe Wiki.... GoMe Wiki Theremin

Include all the messengers(see the census for an updated version) and council members because they are messengers too. ;)

3rd page:
Library Manager.... Remove Aaander91 because curerntly there is no one to do that.
NOT Forum Moderators – responsible for seeking out and deleting all posts made by the Grand Master ... Forum Moderators - responsible for editing and moving posts to facilitate guild communication on the forum.
NOT Editor-in-chief [...]- Lynnutte...Editor-in-chief [...]- Andros
NOT Puzzle Maker – creates one puzzler.... Puzzle Maker – creates one puzzle
NOT Distributor – sends the final version out by e-mail to subscribers. - Andros... Distributors – sends the final version out by e-mail to subscribers and post it on various forums.- Andros, Nanouk_Metal, Leonardo, Gbadji

Kalypso: #85553

Tai'lahr
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se unió: Jul 8 2008

Thanks, Andros. :D
I'll start making the changes and watching this thread for more.

Andros wrote:
NOT Forum Moderators – responsible for seeking out and deleting all posts made by the Grand Master ...

Heehee, this was the mistake I put in on purpose. You had questioned whether or not moderators were really necessary here and so I considered just leaving this spot blank or putting a question there. Instead, I decided to use it as a fun little test to see if the document was read thoroughly. :lol:

Szark
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se unió: Ene 12 2008
Quote:
WOW Tai'lahr. It's bloody genius!

I would have to agree with that Andros. Good work Tai'lahr.
Szark

Tai'lahr
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se unió: Jul 8 2008
Andros wrote:
NOT Puzzle Maker – creates one puzzler....

rotfl :shock: Oh, anglefire, I'm so sorry. :wink:

Okay, here is the updated version with all of Andros' corrections, including updating the "membership list" of All Messengers with several names. However, I was unable to access the Census right now, so I'm not sure I got all of them.

And, I've taken out the question in red I had in that spot, but will ask it here: Is there anything we should state about membership in the guild?

Andros
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se unió: Oct 29 2007

Googledoc is really unreliable these days. Should find a way to move the information to a more appropriate place? Like the Wiki per example?

The staff of the newsletter is not completed yet so I can't fill out all the positions with names.

The Messengers list:
AlKaera, Aander91, Andros, Anthony, angelfire, Blade Lakem, blutec, Erik, Flocat, Gbadji. Gerbert, Kalypso, Legomoe-Green III, Leonardo, Lial, Lynutte, Marten, Narym, Nanouk, Sambase, Shimmerillion, Szark, Tai'lahr, Theremin, Veralun.

Erik is not a messenger. For the full list:

memberlist.php?mode=group&g=75

Thanks Tai'lahr ;)

Kalypso: #85553

Al'Kaera
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se unió: Jul 6 2008
Andros wrote:
WOW Tai'lahr. It's bloody genius! I would never have done such a good job with it.

DITTOs Tai', sorta, I wouldn't have said 'bloody' but I can tell it is a labor of love at least and MAHVUHLUS too. :lol:
AlKaera

again KI 102324  ancient KI 5969479

angelfire
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se unió: Jul 8 2008

Looks good Tai'lahr :D

Nanouk_Metal
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se unió: Mar 1 2008

GoMe Org Chart-V3.doc
http://messengers.sixpencemedia.com/forum/download/file.php?id=131

I am not able to view this documents with my Microsoft Work 8/WorkPad. see attached image. (all I get are the first two lines)


Szark
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se unió: Ene 12 2008

Ok I have converted it to RFT (Rich Text Format) Give that a try. :D

Szark

Nanouk_Metal
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se unió: Mar 1 2008
Szark wrote:
Ok I have converted it to RFT (Rich Text Format) Give that a try. :D

Szark

Yes it is working, Good job Szark.


Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

Go ahead and move stuff to the wiki if you prefer, Andros.

Tai'lahr, GREAT JOB! Of course, I've already told you that. 8)

Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

Rel.to job description

I see that I need to explain what the duties associated with Rel.to are.

The primary responsibility is to keep an eye on the community, to listen and gather feedback, and keep the database up-to-date. Obsolete entries need to be removed, new sites need to be sorted into an appropriate category and added. (Gorobay has been very helpful with his posts here to guide improvements on the index.) An unmaintained site is not useful to anyone.

A secondary task is to identify and implement any improvements that would benefit the site's users. Rel.to's design and capabilities have been static for a little while; people aren't asking for much more in the design. I've run polls to seek more feedback, but I've gotten very little useful information from those.

Though not members of the GoMe, I owe a debt of gratitute to Tweek for Rel.to's sleek design, and Erik for the programming. So when I say the job description includes "implementing improvements," that can mean delegating the work to someone more capable.

October Elections
I think that everyone has done a pretty good job helping Tai' fill in the blanks... that is, we've partly completed step 2. I think we should focus a little more on the last question in that step, though.
2. Next step: Fill in the above descriptions. What have I left out? What is not getting done the way I've described it?
We can do that along with the next item.
3. Step after that: Where do we want to go from here?

To put it another way, we need to look at what works, and what could use some improvement, in our guild structure. Do we have positions that do not really accomplish anything aside from provide someone a title? Have we assigned anyone a job that isn't really a job... with tasks that don't really need doing? Note: This is not the same question as asking if the chairs and I are doing what you'd like us to do. For example, if you feel my position is pointless because I'm not doing what you expect me to do, that should be managed by electing a capable and responsible person into my position, not by eliminating the position if it has real potential to be useful. This question is about ensuring that the positions in our structure have genuine meaning.

Szark
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se unió: Ene 12 2008

rel.to: I gather that you would like all of us to be on the lookout for these changes and report back. I have to admit that I have not been doing that at all, it hasn't even entered my thoughts. :oops: I will have to endeavour to change that in the future.

Quote:
October Elections
I think that everyone has done a pretty good job helping Tai' fill in the blanks... that is, we've partly completed step 2. I think we should focus a little more on the last question in that step, though.
2. Next step: Fill in the above descriptions. What have I left out? What is not getting done the way I've described it?
We can do that along with the next item.
3. Step after that: Where do we want to go from here?

This is carried on from page 8

Quote:
Do we have positions that do not really accomplish anything aside from provide someone a title?

I really don't have much to say apart from the affiliates Chair in my opinion is not required. This might upset some people but it is my opinion based on what I read and have seen over the last nine months or so. However the concept is, as I have said on numerous occasions a valid one but the implementation is another story. How much help do we really get from the affiliates as I don't see much, Narym excluded? If I am wrong then please tell me politely as this is not an attack but just an observation. Things should be working both ways and we should be pooling our resources to produce the best Newsletter/paper, Magazine, documentaries, live in-cavern entertainment and news service out there. But it seems that some people do not want to work towards this hence my original statement that the Affiliate chair is redundant.

Quote:
Have we assigned anyone a job that isn't really a job... with tasks that don't really need doing?

Nope, got nothing! Or how about that Weekly update bloke, we don't need him do we? :shock:
I will now retreat into my hole and take cover. :D

Szark

Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007
Szark wrote:
rel.to: I gather that you would like all of us to be on the lookout for these changes and report back. I have to admit that I have not been doing that at all, it hasn't even entered my thoughts. :oops: I will have to endeavour to change that in the future.

Not strictly necessary, but always appreciated. :) And, yes, I need my Weekly updates.

Szark wrote:
I really don't have much to say apart from the affiliates Chair in my opinion is not required.

I know that Andros has some thoughts on this, and I shared my thoughts with him recently. I'd like to hear from Lynnutte and the affiliates she represents on what they think of the current system, and how we can do better.

Also, Narym recently mentioned some confusion about the purpose of the Reporter's Chair position. I think that position may still be useful, if we define it better so the elected representative knows what to do.

Veralun
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se unió: Dic 2 2007
Quote:
We're just a little over a month away from October, so it is now time to discuss the overall guild structure again and prepare for a new round of elections.

Yes I think it is good to evaluate the past periode and to look at the future for the guild structure.
Agreed was to hold new round of elections.
If we were a guild "in working" I would say that this was a good thing.
When we started this no one knew what the future was.
During the time we learned that MORE is coming and that some guilds are becoming important for MORE.
The GoMe got the promise from Cyan that they will be the "reporter" in MORE.
Till now that is all. MORE is still far away and in the mean time this guild tries to find his way.
A lot of great work is been done.
But I must say the work what is done is only a preparation for the moment we can realy act as a guild in MORE.
But working as a real guild in the planned MORE game is something we do not have expirience in yet.
Therefore my question is: is it realy important we have elections now?
Unless it is clear that some ppl are not on the right place I do not see why the structure how it is at this moment needs to be changed.
If some one want to change or cancel his/her position than that is ok.
But the main structure looks ok to me.

Quote:
I really don't have much to say apart from the affiliates Chair in my opinion is not required. This might upset some people but it is my opinion based on what I read and have seen over the last nine months or so. However the concept is, as I have said on numerous occasions a valid one but the implementation is another story. How much help do we really get from the affiliates as I don't see much, Narym excluded? If I am wrong then please tell me politely as this is not an attack but just an observation. Things should be working both ways and we should be pooling our resources to produce the best Newsletter/paper, Magazine, documentaries, live in-cavern entertainment and news service out there. But it seems that some people do not want to work towards this hence my original statement that the Affiliate chair is redundant.

Not upset, but realy shocked to read this.
It is a shame history repeats itself.
To me it proves the person who wrote this is not familiar with the road the GoMe walked through before it became a guild.
If not familiar I only can advise him/her to dig into the roots of this guild.
The affiliates are the future keynote of this guild.
Those who cannot see this has a wrong idea of the GoMe.
That these affiliates are not "visible" at this moment has to do with their function.
But that does not mean they are useless so they can leave.
Thinking that the guild how it is now is finished and is prepared for the future is a mistake.
A lot of work still needs to be done and above reaction proves it again.

.......................CCN.........................

Al'Kaera
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se unió: Jul 6 2008
Veralun wrote:
Yes I think it is good to evaluate the past periode and to look at the future for the guild structure.
The GoMe got the promise from Cyan that they will be the "reporter" in MORE.
I must say the work what is done is only a preparation for the moment we can realy act as a guild in MORE.
But working as a real guild in the planned MORE game is something we do not have expirience in yet.
Szark wrote:
... the affiliates Chair in my opinion is not required. This might upset some people but it is my opinion based on what I read and have seen over the last nine months or so.

Not upset, but realy shocked to read this. It is a shame history repeats itself.
the person who wrote this is not familiar with the road the GoMe walked through before it became a guild.
If not familiar I only can advise him/her to dig into the roots of this guild.
The affiliates are the future keynote of this guild. Those who cannot see this has a wrong idea of the GoMe.
That these affiliates are not "visible" at this moment has to do with their function. But that does not mean they are useless so they can leave.
Thinking that the guild how it is now is finished and is prepared for the future is a mistake.
A lot of work still needs to be done and above reaction proves it again.

This is just a lot of talk to someone who hasn't been here 90 days let alone 9 months or has 9 years of Cyan/D'ni Guild history or understanding. This is NOT a 'criticism' against you Veralun, as you seem to know a lot about Guilds and GoMe guild history. Just give some of us the benefit of the doubt and lend a hand in directing us to those 'roots of this guild'. Are they here, buried in this forum?, other forums? What names on the posts do I look for when searching for 'messenger' or GoMe or what ever I use?
Help me/Us out a little. Don't be the only one standing in the way of history repeating itself and looking like a hero. Heroes witness the same point of impact when going down in a burning plane as everyone else does.
AlKaera

again KI 102324  ancient KI 5969479

Tai'lahr
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se unió: Jul 8 2008
Veralun wrote:
is it realy important we have elections now?

Yes, it is important to hold elections now if for no other reason than to set the procedure in place, work out any bugs, and demonstrate that we follow through on plans and goals.

And, with reference to this post on the MOUL forum: What the Guilds do: why isn't it more obvious?, I would like to add a "mission statement" or "statement of purpose" to the GoMe Org Chart. Can someone point me to that?

Again, with reference to the MOUL post, ideally, it would be great if all the guilds followed suit and created their own org charts. But, even without them, I would like to create one for the whole Uru Community that demonstrates what each guild and group does, their relationships to each other and to Cyan. This "Grande" chart would basically show a "chain of command" (for lack of a better term) that people can use to see the best route to take to acheive their own goals. Ex: they take an idea for an age to the GoW, not to Cyan, etc.

Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

Another reason that we need to hold elections is that some people currently in positions within the guild want an opportunity to step down or to change roles. It is unfair to those people if elections are not held and they are expected to continue a role they were promised would be re-elected in October.

I am not certain whether an Affiliate Chair position is necessarily the best way to continue and build our relationship with our Affiliates, but I do not want to see our existing Affiliate relationships soured in any way by proposing changes that could upset or offend someone. I also do not want to suggest change to a working system unless I am confident that what I am proposing will genuinely serve us better, and I don't have any ideas where I feel certain that things would be improved.

My perspective on the history of the this guild is: The original people who wanted to run this group did not succeed because they were too focused on how they were going to run the guild (and making up reasons why it needed to be run that way); they did not focus at all on the purpose of the guild - our reason for being, our raison d'être. Then Shimmerillion, Andros, and Lynnutte decided to get together and just start doing the things that the guild needed to do. One of those things that needed to be done, was to form a good relationship with the "media" groups that already existed. The GoMe assured these groups that we did not intend to tell them what to do, but that we wanted to share information and assistance freely.

Veralun, if you have a different recollection or can offer more insight to the situation, I hope that you will explain. I was not very involved with the group in the beginning days, though I remember arguing on the MOUL forum with some of the "original" founder-wannabes.

Veralun
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se unió: Dic 2 2007

Maybe it is me but I am reading 2 different things here.

Quote:
I really don't have much to say apart from the affiliates Chair in my opinion is not

required. This might upset some people but it is my opinion based on what I read and have

seen over the last nine months or so. However the concept is, as I have said on numerous

occasions a valid one but the implementation is another story. How much help do we really

get from the affiliates as I don't see much, Narym excluded? If I am wrong then please

tell me politely as this is not an attack but just an observation. Things should be

working both ways and we should be pooling our resources to produce the best

Newsletter/paper, Magazine, documentaries, live in-cavern entertainment and news service

out there. But it seems that some people do not want to work towards this hence my

original statement that the Affiliate chair is redundant.

and

Quote:
I am not certain whether an Affiliate Chair position is necessarily the best way to

continue and build our relationship with our Affiliates, but I do not want to see our

existing Affiliate relationships soured in any way by proposing changes that could upset

or offend someone. I also do not want to suggest change to a working system unless I am

confident that what I am proposing will genuinely serve us better, and I don't have any

ideas where I feel certain that things would be improved.

My reaction was on the first quote and special about the critics that there was no help from the affiliates, so therefore the affiliates Chair is not needed.

The second quote says something complete different.
(or I must read this in the wrong way)

You see it is the way how things have been brought into the public.
Often there lies the problem.
That was also a problem in the past.
The intentions were ok, only the way how things were said not.
This causes confusion.

This was already a problem around the DRC Liasons. And I think we need to avoid these things.

Marten your recollection about the current situation is right, but far before the start of this guild there were huge mountains to take for some ppl to come to the point we reached now.
Even Dr. Watson (DRC) and Cyan was aware of that:

http://www.mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11781

To "forget" this is a mistake.
Everyone in this guild is important and not only those who "do things".
I do not say the affiliates need to have a Chair, that is up to the members. But saying that these affiliates are useless at this moment and therefore they do not need a chair is asking for a reaction.
And that reaction I gave.

.......................CCN.........................

Szark
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se unió: Ene 12 2008

I do admit now upon reflection that my comments may have been premature as we will all come in to our own when MORE is online and for that I apologise. You already know my views on the affiliates anyway, or have you forgotten already, Total support from me and always has been. I was even put down, again, because of my views regarding Archiver announcements and translations, by you also come to think. Why do you think I am involved with the GoMe and TCT?

Quote:
And that reaction I gave.

Which is something you should look at veralun, act not react, which is something that has been hammered home to me often enough recently. Btw I never said the affiliates were useless, please do not put words in to my mouth. I say what I observe, is that wrong? I did ask to be corrected in a construstive manner.

Quote:
If not familiar I only can advise him/her to dig into the roots of this guild.

I am a he as my Details show, when looked at.

I will say no more on this as I do not want to upset anyones hard work and hinder the affiliates process any futher than I my have already.

Szark

Marten
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se unió: Nov 8 2007

I am sending a PM to each of the chairs to update this thread with thoughts on how the org chart describes the chair positions and whether each thinks a reorganization is worthwhile, or if we should elect the same positions moving forward.

Does anyone object if Andros speaks on behalf of the Services Chair position, as he is currently running our most labor-intensive project, the Newsletter?